I’m currently doing battle with a private parking contractor who seriously thinks I’m going to give them £70 (plus a £40 ‘admin charge’ if I don’t cough up within 28 days) because someone (not me) allegedly ‘overstayed’ 27 minutes in a supermarket car park that’s free for two hours anyway, while driving a car registered to me.
Private parking contractors (or PPCs) have been in the news a lot recently – stories about overcharging, threatening/intimidating letters and follow-up from debt collectors, and in a few cases aggressive phone calls and even visits. Mine hasn’t gone this far. In fact I believe the company I’m dealing with are one of the more ‘moderate’ PPCs, though even they have just sent me a ‘reminder’ that seems deliberately designed to imply powers they don’t have.
Many believe that these companies’ whole business model is based on bombarding people with official-looking ‘tickets’ and threatening-sounding letters in order to scare a percentage into paying money which they wouldn’t pay if they hadn’t been made to think they were legally obliged to. I think that’s wrong.
PPCs are just private companies. When operating on private land (such as supermarket car parks) they have no legal enforcement powers or rights whatsoever. Their charges are based on civil law and they argue that because they display signs around the car park saying so, anyone who parks there enters into a contract to pay a certain amount of money if they overstay or do anything else that’s ‘not allowed’.
They also often use ANPR-type number plate recognition cameras to ‘log’ cars going in and out of the car park and if these record a time between that’s longer than allowed, a ticket/invoice/charge notice or whatever you want to call it is issued automatically…
HOWEVER, there are several important ‘legal questions’ with this which the PPCs, unsurprisingly, don’t like being asked.
Firstly if (and it’s a big if) a contract does exist, it’s with the driver of the car, not the registered keeper. The PPC will obtain registered keeper details from DVLA but if that person wasn’t driving he cannot have a contractural agreement. More importantly, if the registered keeper wasn’t driving, he is also under no legal obligation to tell a private company who was or to help them in any way. The onus is on the PPC to prove who was driving; the registered keeper doesn’t have to prove anything.
Secondly, it’s a principle of British law that individuals can’t punish each other; only the state can punish. Therefore, any private company contract that can be shown to include an element of punishment could well be unenforceable. It’s also arguable that companies are only allowed to sue for actual losses, not some far larger amount they’ve plucked out of thin air. And what is the actual loss that’s caused by staying an extra 27 minutes in a car park that’s free for two hours anyway?
I must stress though that, as far as I know, none of this has been properly tested in court. It’s also unlikely to be, since even if a PPC did take someone to court (and all the evidence is that most avoid this like the plague) these matters fall within the ‘small claims’ procedure, and small claims decisions don’t become case law.
Many lawyers certainly believe that PPC ‘charges’ can/should be ignored. In fact a few weeks ago on BBC’s ‘Watchdog’ recently, a lawyer demonstrated what he would do with a PPC’s ‘penalty charge notice’ if he or one of his family received one; he’d make it into a paper aeroplane…
Anyway, back to my case… I’m not going to pay it as a matter of principle. I don’t owe it, these people KNOW they’re on shaky legal ground and it’s my journalistic duty to challenge them…
Anyway, the following ‘blog’ will be updated each time anything happens – it’ll either end in me going to court (which I’ll be delighted to do) or when they give up….
Please keep in mind that we are here talking ONLY about private car parks – supermarkets, fast-food outlets, shopping centres and so on – and NOT official parking tickets issued by or on behalf of local authorities or the police. These do have the authority of law and have to be responded to properly.
25.5.10. They send me a Parking Charge Notice claiming that a car registered in my name was parked for two hours and 27 minutes in a supermarket car park in East Sussex – free parking there is allowed for two hours. They say I owe them £70 (or £40 if I cough up within 14 days) that I have contracted to pay when I parked there. If I don’t pay up within 28 days a £40 admin charge will be added. I was not driving or with the car when it was parked.
The whole document is clearly designed to give the impression that it is an official parking ticket – even down to calling it a PCN; the same initials as officially-issued Penalty Charge Notices. It’s not. It’s a PARKING charge notice. It is not a fine – legally it’s an invoice for money that I allegedly owe them.
I SEND THE FOLLOWING RESPONSE ON 31.5.10
Your claim appears to be based on me agreeing to “terms and conditions clearly and prominently displayed”. I have not agreed to any such terms as I was not the driver of the car on the day and time of the alleged infringement.
Any claim you may have – and I have it on good authority that your claim is totally invalid anyway as penalty charges are not enforceable in a consumer contract and a claim amounting to over £2.50 a minute is clearly a penalty rather than compensation for loss – is therefore against the driver, not me. You are just a private company and have no enforcement powers of any kind. I am therefore under no obligation whatsoever to tell you who was driving at the time and I am not prepared to do so.
I do not owe you any money and I will not be making any payment.
Their reply, dated 2.6.10 arrives by return..
Thank you for your letter concerning the above parking charge in which you question our authority to issue you with a charge.
The photographic evidence we have of your vehicle consistently constitutes clear liability in Courts of Law.
We therefore hereby inform you that in the event that full payment is not received within ten days of the date of this letter we shall be taking immediate further action.
I reply on 4.6.10 using a letter template taken from moneyexpert.com – Martin Lewis’s site
Dear sirs
In response to you letter dated June 2, I am forwarding again my letter to you dated 30.5.10 in which I advised you I was not the driver of the above car at the time the car was allegedly parked on your clients property and I am therefore not liable to pay your invoice. Please do not contact me again with regards this matter.
This prompts the following reply, dated June 7
Thank you for your letter concerning the above Parking Charge Notice.
Please forward the full name and address of the driver within seven days so that we may reissue this notice.
Until the requested information is received, this PCN will remain open and be processed accordingly.
We’re starting to go round in circles so I reply on 11.6.10…
Dear Sirs
Further to your letter of June 7, as I stated in my letter of May 31, you are just a private company and have no enforcement powers of any kind. I am therefore under no legal obligation to tell you who was driving and I am not prepared to do so.
As I have now made my position clear on three separate occasions and asked you not to contact me again I will not be replying to any further correspondence from you.
YRS PAS
21.6.2010. Letter number 4, dated 18.6.10, from the company. This appears to be a standard ‘chase-up’ and not connected with previous correspndence. They’re starting to get naughty now. For starters, the envelope is clearly designed so that ‘parking charge notice’ and ‘issued to’ are visible above my name and address. A deliberate attempt to embarrass? I think so.
Inside it says, among other things;
“Failure to pay the full balance outstanding within 14 days of the date of this notice could result in the balance outstanding being registered as a debt against you. You will also become liable for additional costs and interest involved. Your ability to obtain credit in the future could be affected”.
No mention, though, of the fact that they can do NONE of this without first going to court and getting a judgment and court order, and even then it applies ONLY if I refuse to obey a court order.
I’m going to ignore this one – let’s see what happens next…
why didn’t you give them a name like “The Sting” and the Top gear Airfield address. Had it been nearer Christmas, maybe “Rudolph the Red Nose” etc. It would have been interesting to see their follow-up to this. I was caught with the London Congestion Charge last year. On our way from Up North to Dover, the Dartford crossing was closed, as was the Blackwall tunnel (both due to accidents). on our way to the Woolwich Ferry, we ‘strayed’ in but neither my wife or self saw any signs. It certainly was congested! We had a nice bill on our return two weeks later. I appealed, to no avail. They weren’t going to let Northerners get away with a simple mistake.
Could you have given me advice as to what else I could of done, short of petitioning the Queen?
All the best……….. Jim
Good luck with this – a colleague parked in the wrong spot in a private car park and was fined £70, daily charge was £4. I had parked there a week before, and luckily saw the “tiny” sign that stated this. Never going back there. He coughed up, I would have not!!
Good luck. I am n total agreement with you.
I had a very similar thing happen to me at a motorway services. I was the driver of the vehicle in question at the times stated. The only thing was I had left the services in the car and returned to the same services about 3 hours later. They took the time of me entering on the first visit with the time of exiting on the second and said I was their for over 4 hours!!! Who in their right mind would stay at a motorway services for over 4 hours? Anyway I told them to recheck their ANPR & video footage. They dropped the “charge” but did not offer an apology!
Best of luck to you.
How do these guys get given the right to look up recorded keeper details with the DVLA. My understanding was/is that this information is for government bodies only and available to private citizens upon written request and payment of a charge, and only after good reason such as a vehicle dumped on private property.
Already ‘beaten’ if beaten is the right word one of these companies invoices for £175.
Best advice I was given was to completely ignore them and it worked.
Sadly you have thought quite logically that talking to them would make them see sense but it doesn’t. They have a perfect legal scam going and will not be swayed from their profits by chatter.
From this point on just completely ignore the fools.
I received four invoices then three letters from a legal company masquerading as a solicitors and then it all went quiet. Took 10 weeks from the date of the first invoice to the date of the last legal company’s letter.
Hi,
I have just recieved a ticket from Euro Car Parks Limited saying the fine is £70. The ticket itself was wet through when i got it so couldn’t really read it. One thing I could read was they had my car registration plate wrong on the ticket even though they may have photo evidence. My question is, should i just ignore it?